January 17th Post Event

Anonymous · Postby **Anonymous** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:05 pm

4 runs on a crappy course that had cones which could damage your car.

Thumbs down.

It's not that hard to hold a decent event. Sometimes you guys try way too hard and end up with a failure like today. Keep it simple.

Anonymous · Postby **Anonymous** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:27 pm

Since Roger Johnson was brought up for the last event. Here are some more Roger Johnson quotes.

Ways to make your course flow:

-Allow the driver ample room to choose a favorable line
-Avoid painful walled-in turns
-Allow a few more feet of width and/or length when approaching
the next maneuver
-Determine which cones control the speed and direction of the course (key cones) and remove any of the remaining cones that could cause confusion

There are also a few “No Fun Maneuvers” (NFMs) that I would
recommend avoiding if possible:

-Any maneuver that REQUIRES a 1st gear down shift
-Narrow, walled in sharp turns
-Hitting the brakes hard just before the lights

DO NOT Make them hit (and pick up) lots of pylons!!

Track the number of DNFs for other than mechanical failure
• The goal is zero:
• acceptable is 1 in 20 on the first run, 1 in 100 there after

Number and frequency of pylons hit
• The goal is zero
• Acceptable is 1 car in 10 hitting any; no more than 3
for any one car

miazda man · Postby **miazda man** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:39 pm

I for one thought is was a great course. Thanks loren for the design. I don't see a problem with having to down shift and turn tight corners thats what is all about. Anyone can go fast in a stright-a-way but thats not what this course was about. I made four runs without hitting any cones and no damage to my car also thanks Steve great event and a tasty lunch

Solar · Postby **Solar** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:59 pm

I really didn't like the course much either, my main complaint was that the course averaged a bit over a minute, and there were A LOT of downed cones that needed to be reset, which took up even more time. All of those things added up to getting just 4 runs, and I believe an average run time at SPC is about 40-45 seconds. It seemed by time I got comfortable with the course, my runs were up.

Not everything was bad though, Steve and Loren did a great job getting everything set up. It seemed that everyone pitched in and did their jobs, and there wasn't much waiting for course workers. Though for some reason the Drivers Meeting finished up about 10:20 and the first car didn't get off until a few minutes before 11am.

Lunch was awesome!! I didn't hear one complaint about that, and the weather was close to perfect for an autocross, except for the race tire guys.

I look at this event as a "lets give the police course a try and see what happens" type event. We now know that some things worked and others didn't; but at least now we know. 8)

Anonymous · Postby **Anonymous** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:09 pm

Lunch was awesome and the event ran well, started on time, etc. I don't even mind 4 runs that much, I just hated the course and intentionally putting cones on the exit of turns that could damage your car. That is dumb.

Anonymous · Postby **Anonymous** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:16 pm

I enjoyed the autocross today. It was a tough course, and tough on the car. The shifter in the Speed 3 broke off on the last run. I had to drive it home by pushing the linkage around with my fingers. Tough course or cheap car? I just miss beating on the old reliable Mustang

Blacknot · Postby **Blacknot** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:35 pm

I really enjoyed the course today. Very challenging not to hit any cones. It was a nice change and the lunch was one of the best i had to date. I was dissappointed to only have 4 runs but you have to take the good with the bad.

Postby **Loren** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:18 pm

Jeremy, it was made public EXACTLY what we were doing and what the course would be well in advance of this event. It was a one-time thing, and if you didn't like the idea, you could have avoided the event.

I even announced at the driver's meeting that those tall cones could damage your car, and I'm certain that Steve would have given a refund to anyone who asked for one at that point based on concerns over that. Your choosing to run the course anyway puts that ball squarely in your court. As for actually HITTING cones, I hit four of them today... and I don't blame the course. I slid the back end out twice to hit three of them, and I clipped an apex too tight and hit another one. My fault. Not because I designed the course... because I was driving the car sloppy.

I know it was far from an ideal course, but it was exactly what it was intended to be: The Law Enforcement course with only the tweaks necessary to make it meet our safety requirements (move peripheral sections in away from hard obstacles) and navigable by typical autocross standards (pointer cones and chalk line). Lots of people wanted to know what it would be like to drive that course and/or why don't use it or parts of it in our course designs. Now they know.

On top of all that, I really only heard from 2 or 3 people who didn't enjoy the course. (which is not uncommon for ANY autocross course... someone always has a gripe) Everyone else found it to be challenging and fun. Far more compliments than complaints. That said, I don't intend to ever run that course again, or anything like it... you know that my typical course designs are much looser and more flowing than that.

Don't like it? Steve is still looking for a chairman for the February event. Do something that suits you.

Solar, the hold up after the driver's meeting was the novice course walk. It was a long course and Howard did a thorough walk (because there were lots of novices due to this being the week after our novice school), so it took longer than usual. I'd have loved to see first car off at 10am... but when we allow walk-up registration and people are still walking up at 9:20, it's nearly impossible to do. Newb course workers were also responsible for much of the delays when there were downed cones. (but, yeah, I know the course design contributed to that A LOT)

To me, it was all good. The course was challenging and rewarded smooth, precise driving much more than a heavy right foot and lots of torque. I love a course that shows who the real drivers are rather than just who the people with high powered cars and big balls are. Most drivers got a total of about 260 seconds of course time, which would equate to six 43-second runs or eight 32-second runs, either of which could be a "typical" SPC course. So, nobody got shorted on seat time... just on run opportunities. That's life.

d_rasp · Postby **d_rasp** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:18 pm

+1 in the 'Loved it' column here! Thought the course had a nice mix of tight/technical stuff + all out speed. 3/4 runs had cones for me & I got a good reminder how much I'm used to relying on the ABS in my Silver Miata. As others have already mentioned, well run & well food'd as always.

nc4me · Postby **nc4me** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:22 pm

I liked everything. Including the course. Yes, it was narrow and confined and you didn't have much choice in terms of driving line, but if you slowed down enough for the tight turns and drove smoothly than you got decent times. If you pushed to hard when you shouldn't or were rough then you paid for it. I was going to say I felt bad for the larger cars being on a narrow course, but I believe the impala on race tires ran a 62 or 63 something and Jack in an S2000 on race tires ran a 61 or 62 something. It wasn't about the size of the gates or the cars, just driving style. I do agree about the huge cones near corner exits though.

Bone · Postby **Bone** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:33 pm

I had a blast driving today. Loved the course. Yes, it was different, and required some thunkin' (or watching Loren) to drive. It was a great learning experience too..... I had to learn, and practice, things I don't normally see in an autocross event.

The key for me (picked up from Loren) is to set up properly, and idle through the tight stuff.... allowing my tires to concentrate on turning, instead of braking or accellerating. That allowed me to get better by leaps and bounds with every run, and I did not find the limits of my tires using that technique. I believe I would have been in the 50's with a few more runs.

This course magnified problems we see in out normal courses, forcing us to find solutions instead of making up for mistakes with raw power or sticky tires. I'm glad we did it, and I expect I suck a little less now.

We all wanted more runs, but total drive time did equal six runs on a 40 second course.

RC

Anonymous · Postby **Anonymous** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:36 pm

Loren wrote:you could have avoided the event.

That's the spirit! I am going to design a course however I want. Tell everyone that crown vics fit through it so there can be no whining and if you don't like it, don't come.

Postby **Loren** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:48 pm

Jeremy wrote:
Loren wrote:you could have avoided the event.
That's the spirit! I am going to design a course however I want. Tell everyone that crown vics fit through it so there can be no whining and if you don't like it, don't come.

Loren wrote:Don't like it? Steve is still looking for a chairman for the February event. Do something that suits you.

And if I don't like it, I won't come. 8)

Postby **Native** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:13 pm

Steve is still looking for a chairman for the February event

Yes I am. This thread
http://www.kickflop.net/autocrossbb/viewtopic.php?t=476" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
has been viewed 30 times. No reply. Chairing an event is not difficult, people. There is a non-penalty cancellation deadline at Brooksville, as well as a certain amount of pre-planning needed for an event. We don't have to have an event, but it would be nice if we could. Someone please volunteer to chair. Much of the rest of the year is un-chaired, as well.

Jeremy, sorry you weren't happy. Maybe next time will be better.

Everyone else - glad you had a good time. I did. I coned every run (but never more than 2

). Thanks to Loren and everyone else who helped out. The courseworkers got a workout today, and there was good hustle! I know folks don't like just 4 runs (the seat time total has already been pointed out). To do just one more run would've added over an hour of live course time - we would've been cleaning up in the dark.

We had half the novice school come back - really glad to have you all! And talk about trial by fire! I would like to offer a few pointers to the novices, and reminders to everyone else:
1. It's bad form to race to or from the event site, or in the parking lot. It's legal speeds and all road rules to and from the site.
2. Clean up after yourselves. Take a bottle of water or can of soda? Make sure you throw one away - there's always a trash can or bag somewhere nearby. Littering event sites is not going to make them happy, and it isn't fair for those staying to help pack up the trailer to also have to do garbage duty.
3. Courseworking is potentially dangerous. We try to make courseworkers visible with red vests and flags, but the worker has got to be on their toes and always watching. Talking on cell phones, or playing with radar guns or anything else is not acceptable - it distracts you from what you are supposed to be doing - working the course, and keeping yourself and other courseworkers safe. Also, courseworkers must stand. If you have to reset a cone, or dodge a flying car part, or car, a standing start will give a better chance of not holding up the event, and of possibly saving your own skin. It's a lot slower to first have to get up - and that second it takes could be the difference.
4. Photographers need spotters - if you want to take pix, or have a friend that does, someone needs to be watching out for the photog while they are busy framing a shot. You can't watch out for yourself and shoot pix at the same time.
5. Generally speaking, event sites are hard to come by, and they wouldn't care if we never came back. We always try to be respectful to them, and basically "behave ourselves." There might be do's or don't I didn't note above, but it's all just common sense and courtesy, to the site, and those nearby.

Lunches - glad y'all enjoyed it. We're looking to add some variety. We did the BBQ today because several people asked for it again after the Nov. event. We have other ideas in mind. Yes, there will be pizza, but not every single time. The "world-famous FAST lunch" is hopefully about to get famouser! At least at SPC - B'ville might be a little trickier.

Lost and found: jacket and helmet bag. Suspect it belongs to the driver of the Legacy wagon. Describe it accurately and it's yours.

Lost and found: screwdriver and half quart of oil. The oil is gone, but I've held on to the screwdriver. Guess the color of the handle, and type of screw, and it's yours. Or I'll keep it - never have enough screwdrivers, eh?

Greg Smith - the battery is a PC625 - I think I told you wrong.

snookwheel · Postby **snookwheel** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:25 pm

Ok, we all have some well earned cone scar's to wax off!

Here are a few reminders for you folks.

Jennifer's HOT Nismo and MAD SKILZZZZ !! http://blip.tv/file/1677817" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mary's Solstice w/Jeremy instruction : http://blip.tv/file/1677788" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scott's Solo Vee. Catching cones early in the run. http://blip.tv/file/1677851" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jeremy facing his Cone Demons: http://blip.tv/file/1677889" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

snookwheel · Postby **snookwheel** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:31 pm

Awww.. I do try to not leave crap behind. I am the culprit that left the screwdriver and oil behind. Oh well. Hope the oil (synthetic Mobil 1) went to a good home. Tape the screw driver(yellow handle I think) to the Line marker to use for the next time some one throws drywall into the bin. Had a ball, Scott

Postby **Loren** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:36 pm

Chalk spreader worked great after your top-notch crud-scraping... I should know, I used the hell out of it this morning. Thanks, Scott!

Postby **Native** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:42 pm

yellow handle I think

Ding! You win back your yellow-handled screwdriver!

Thanks for the vids. Always entertaining.

snookwheel · Postby **snookwheel** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:49 pm

Dang.. Not sure why there is no sound on the video's I posted.. I'll work on it. Scott

Agent · Postby **Agent** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:28 pm

Overall, I had a great time as I always do when I'm hanging with the guys from FAST. I have never driven on a course like that and it was a huge challenge for me. It was very tight and I've simply never experienced anything like that . I think my only real bitch was the fact that everyone was told we would be getting "at least" 6 runs. I'm still really a novice and I used 3 runs just trying to figure out how to drive a tight course. I did "decent" on my 4th run and as I'm getting ready to use what I learned for my 5th and 6th run, we are informed that we are only getting 4 runs and our turn was over. I know that stuff happens, and there are huge challenges to overcome when running an event like this, but that was a very disappointing miscalculation. Late starts, cones in awkward places, that that seems to be the norm, but getting excited 2/3rd's of the way through your group about finally getting the hang of the course was a really big let down. I guess it's my fault and i should start treating every run like it's my last, but I didn't think that would be mandatory. I know anything with a lot of people involved is a challenge and it's always hard to corral everyone. Having everyone get their jobs accomplished in a timely manner to prevent lengthy delays is always a challenge, and something that seems to happen quite often. Hopefully, we won't have to add how many runs we get to that list of things that sometimes goes smoothly, and sometimes doesn't.

January 17th Post Event

January 17th Post Event

Video time!!

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