What kind of finish is best for a course?

Rosko · Postby **Rosko** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:38 am

How do you like your courses to finish? There are only two choices, because I want to focus on fast and slow versus somewhere in the middle; the choice of all fence-riders.

Obviously, the course has to be safe as well.

Anonymous · Postby **Anonymous** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:01 am

I vote somewhere in the middle. I really don't care about the speed of the finish as long as it is safe.

WAFlowers · Postby **WAFlowers** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:22 am

Define "best". Most fun: faster the better! Most controlled: the slowest possible.

Jeremy is right: safest is best but safest could be fast or slow. However it is easier to design a safe, slow finish than a safe, fast finish I believe.

I'm going to abstain.

Postby **Loren** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:42 am

I'm with Jeremy on this one. BS Poll.

A 20 mph finish is okay IF the steps taken to get you to 20 mph are reasonable.

A 50-60 mph finish is usually too fast unless it's completely straight with 200+ feet of safe run-off.

Ideal is a 30-45 mph finish that is straight and has adequate run-off.

Dave-ROR · Postby **Dave-ROR** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:25 am

Jeremy wrote:I vote somewhere in the middle. I really don't care about the speed of the finish as long as it is safe.

:thumbup:

It could be a 5mph finish, or a 120mph finish (ok we'll limit at 60 for insurance reasons

), if it's safe, I'm not sure the speed matters.

Rosko · Postby **Rosko** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:06 pm

Loren wrote:I'm with Jeremy on this one. BS Poll.

A 20 mph finish is okay IF the steps taken to get you to 20 mph are reasonable.

A 50-60 mph finish is usually too fast unless it's completely straight with 200+ feet of safe run-off.

Ideal is a 30-45 mph finish that is straight and has adequate run-off.

You are definitely one of the fence-riders I was referring to. I always see you offsetting those cones before the finish!

If I know Jeremy, his reply is - at best - tongue in cheek, but probably 100% sarcastic.

Postby **Loren** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:24 pm

There are really only three things to consider:
1. Site and insurance requirements. (max speed = 60)
2. Safety of vehicles, drivers, spectators and real property.
3. Protection of our timing equipment.

More often than not, if I suggest a change at the finish, it is to protect the timing equipment.

Like this last event, a lot of people try to put extreme maneuvers right before the finish to slow it down and make it "safe". That's all fine and dandy... but if your extreme maneuvers result in someone spinning through the finish and taking out the timing lights, it puts a damper on the day. (and really pisses Kenny off)

So, there has to be balance. Really, I prefer "fast and straight" if at all possible. If there is adequate space for a braking zone, it's the safest way to go.

muddy · Postby **muddy** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:55 am

A finish should be:

1. safe
2. protect the timing equipment
3. flow smoothly
4. fit with the course design

All too often we finish with a big, ugly kink. My preference would be a tight slalom, no offset cones.

Solar · Postby **Solar** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:59 am

Just add a couple speed humps, problem solved. 8)

Jamie · Postby **Jamie** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:04 pm

Probably a more useful question is: what sort of start is best for a course? Locally, everyone tends to design straight-out start gates, so everyone has to abuse their clutch and drive tires doing drag-strip starts. A few times at SPC, someone's set the start with a turn between the staging line and the lights, so we do a true rolling start without threatening to leave differentials on the ground -- more of those would be nice.

Mars or Germ · Postby **Mars or Germ** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:07 am

They both should be fun and smooth to the course. I never did like finishes that made you switch to first gear, slow to a crawl around a sharp bend then give you twenty feet of straight shot to the finish line to jab the throttle for a second.

Alizarin · Postby **Alizarin** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:33 pm

Jamie wrote:Probably a more useful question is: what sort of start is best for a course? Locally, everyone tends to design straight-out start gates, so everyone has to abuse their clutch and drive tires doing drag-strip starts. A few times at SPC, someone's set the start with a turn between the staging line and the lights, so we do a true rolling start without threatening to leave differentials on the ground -- more of those would be nice.

Jamie, could you really live without seeing me do another driveline-slamming launch again?

There's also no rule that says you have to do a monster launch off the line. Although I do agree that switching it up a bit is a refreshing change. The aforementioned corner before the lights even brings skill into it. The better exit speed, the quicker your time can be.

Postby **Loren** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:42 pm

Flashback:

One of my favorite starting line antics of all time was a 90-degree start where the lights were a good 10-12 feet around the corner. Driver (Russel Blume if you followed SCCA H Stock at the national level about 10 years ago) gently drove around the corner, then backed up between some cones (going off-course, but re-entering where he went off, so no DNF) and took a running start at the lights!

I don't think he really gained anything from it, but it was fun to watch.

WAFlowers · Postby **WAFlowers** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:16 pm

Loren, now you're giving me ideas!

Jamie · Postby **Jamie** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:37 pm

Alizarin wrote:Jamie, could you really live without seeing me do another driveline-slamming launch again?

Just so long as I'm not watching while picking up pieces of my rear axles from the pavement....

There's also no rule that says you have to do a monster launch off the line....

It's a Miata...cross the lights at low revs, and you'll have insects on the pavement passing you!