July 15 Classic - Post Event

Postby **Native** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:16 pm

Got a chance to look at pics - great job Mike!
I particularly like the sequence of the blue Mustang oversteering along the cone wall; and the truck using a bit of power to miss hitting the apex cone (which I actually saw. ..nice Andy!).

Postby **Loren** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:18 pm

Bro, do you even lift?

Jamie · Postby **Jamie** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:08 pm

Loren wrote:Bro, do you even lift?

You're talking to yourself? Yes, in that picture, you've lifted...even if it's hard to tell the front's compressed, you don't lift the rear wheel under acceleration.

Postby **Loren** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:14 pm

Ohhh... I wonder if it's possible to get rear lift under braking and front lift under acceleration?

Cool Rod · Postby **Cool Rod** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:21 am

Another fun, well run event. Thanks to Randy Lindner for letting me pilot his Mustang after ours suffered a burnt/shorted radiator fan power wire.

Jamie · Postby **Jamie** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:42 pm

Loren wrote:Ohhh... I wonder if it's possible to get rear lift under braking and front lift under acceleration?

Difficult, if possible at all -- one end lifts generally because it's reasonably stiff, and the opposite end is soft. A very uneven weight distribution helps. So older FWD cars, especially those with a rear bar, shake a rear tire, and Porsche 911s, especially the earlier, short-wheelbase models, wave a front paw.

Carracer · Postby **Carracer** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:13 pm

I have seen BMWs pull both the front and rear wheels up.

Jamie · Postby **Jamie** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:39 pm

Carracer wrote:I have seen BMWs pull both the front and rear wheels up.

Under acceleration/deceleration?

Carracer · Postby **Carracer** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:57 pm

Jamie wrote:
Carracer wrote:I have seen BMWs pull both the front and rear wheels up.
Under acceleration/deceleration?

Yep, braking pulling a rear wheel, accelerating pulling a front wheel*
*enter and exiting a turn.

AScoda · Postby **AScoda** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:59 pm

Aww, bummer. No pics of the Mustank. Probably it's only autocross outing too. Oh, well. It was the last 2 runs of the day.

Rawkkrawler · Postby **Rawkkrawler** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:21 pm

Sorry Drew! I wish I had know, my plan was to capture a few shots of Philip in motion, or whatever you call what he does out there. I probably left as you were getting ready to finish your last few runs. Next time.

Jamie · Postby **Jamie** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:36 am

Loren wrote:watch Jamie's video when he posts it....

Sorry it took so long...new computer, so new video editing software. The biggest difference I saw relative to others was I tried to keep a tight entry on the first sweeper, going into the dip, and even more importantly, stayed much tighter through the second sweeper. The video shows I'm well inside the racing line carved out by the first two run groups.
https://youtu.be/yWNB6NhfJcs

JasonS · Postby **JasonS** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:49 pm

I was on course at that corner and your line was SOOOO tight. Looked much quicker than the other cars in your run group. Phillip was also really tight there. It was a lot of fun to watch.

CaptainSquirts · Postby **CaptainSquirts** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:59 am

Jamie wrote: What toe angle are you running? Toe is usually the culprit there.

So I checked my camber and toe. I definitely messed it up when I tried to increase my negative camber. I actually made my camber go from -2.5 to like -1.75 give or take a couple tenths. I tried to adjust it back to-2.5 (I marked the camber bolts previous position) and it showed -1.5 when I changed it back to it

. I checked toe after that and it was a nice chunk off now. Like close to 1/4 toe out! Also car was pulling hard onto the right if my wheel was straight.

Took wheels off, undone strut bolts and readjusted the camber bolts. So I noticed with all strut bolts in(not tightened yet), you could rock the strut back and forth still. So I pushed the top part of the strut in with camber bolts being a little more aggressive than my -2.5 mark and held that it where it was, then tightened them. Doing this, now I actually am around negative 2.9ish camber. My toe was still all jacked up on the front and I know my rear was set to 0. So with some string, I was able to get my fronts to be almost 0 toe when lining them up with my rears. After all of this, my toe up front is like little less than 1/32 toe out. I doubt both fronts are evenly toed out but I'm content with the setting overall. Also car steers pretty damn straight now thankfully.

That took freaking forever to figure out and fix it. Good learning experience, backs a little sore. Hopefully the inner wear goes down but with more negative camber, I'll be able to run less pressure I would think.

Postby **Loren** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:01 pm

Sounds like you're learning!

Front toe is easy. If you're wheel is straight when driving, then the toe is even. Measure your total toe, divide by two, and that's what you've got on each wheel. If you've got the total toe number that you want, and the steering wheel is off-center (and you know that the rear toe is straight), all you have to do is shift each side of the front by the same amount to get back to center.

More negative camber should make it corner even better, and be even faster! You'll still want to run more tire pressure at places like the Dog Track due to the undulations of the surface and how they cause uneven loading.

CaptainSquirts · Postby **CaptainSquirts** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:32 pm

I need to find an even road. Roads all around me tend to dip a little to the right so if I let go of the steering wheel it tends to slightly pull to the right very very lightly.

Postby **Loren** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:29 pm

Yeah, hard to find a flat and level road sometimes. If you find a nice straight residential road with no traffic, you can maybe get away with driving down the middle of the road where it's close to flat. That's usually enough to tell if you've got a pull.

Front toe won't cause a pull. (toe out will case a "wander", or dartiness, but it won't be consistently to one side) If you've actually got a pull to one side, it's probably uneven camber or caster. Maybe rear toe... but, even that doesn't usually cause a pull, it would cause the car to not track straight. Excess toe on ONE side of the rear will cause the car to corner differently in one direction vs the other. And, of course, bad bushings on the rear suspension that allow "variable rear toe" will cause all sorts of wonky handling traits.

Old school alignment techs used to use a caster split to try to correct for the crown in the road. I doubt that they actually put enough of a difference in from side to side for most people to even notice, though.

twistedwankel · Postby **twistedwankel** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:13 pm

I am shameless and utilize Tire Kingdom's appt for a free alignment check and see a printout of what their new machine thinks I have. Then say thanks.

Ever go to the Bradenton dragstrip near you? Not only the strip is flat and level about a 1/2 mile long with runout but also the return lanes. Oh, and it's great fun to see if your car is still full power too. Thursday nites I think.

CaptainSquirts · Postby **CaptainSquirts** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:14 am

twistedwankel wrote:I am shameless and utilize Tire Kingdom's appt for a free alignment check and see a printout of what their new machine thinks I have. Then say thanks.

God I would feel like an ass, but I might do this...

twistedwankel · Postby **twistedwankel** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:38 pm

CaptainSquirts wrote:
twistedwankel wrote:I am shameless and utilize Tire Kingdom's appt for a free alignment check and see a printout of what their new machine thinks I have. Then say thanks.
God I would feel like an ass, but I might do this...

I have a coupon good thru 8-8 Tire Kingdom for $22.88 Valvoline OIl change 5qts (extra for synthetic) + tire rotation and resetting tpms. I can bring the coupon with me Sunday 30th if you're around in PM?
That will ease your guilt...hahahaha I got it from Winn Dixie of all places.

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