POST April 12th Event

[matkub]

Tim, is the man!!!
Congrats !!! ......like you need more HP 44.402 really?
I got stuck on 45s and couldn't go anywhere from there
I'll get you next time

[dbeng]

Postcard from the Bottom of the Timesheets:

Had a great time yesterday. I accomplished pretty much everything I set out to which was to get a few runs with an instructor on board for some feedback on what I am doing right & wrong and to get an instructor to drive to help get a benchmark of how much I am getting out of the car.

I gave myself plenty of time to work on technique by signing up for both sessions. Ben, thanks for the feedback in my first few morning runs, your advice about attacking the back of the cones on the return side of the course was a big help, as well as telling me to go faster through the slalom. I felt pretty good after a few runs and Ben seemed quite pleased with my progress as it was his first ride with me since the novice school. Steve jumped in for my next run and I gave him a great display of overconfidence and overdriving, somewhat embarrassing to say the least. I gave the ABS a good workout just avoiding a major cone wipeout more by luck than judgment. Too much “push harder” and not enough “suck less” in that run.
Drew jumped in for an instructor run, in the unfamiliar surroundings of a stock front wheel drive car and set a time of 51.4, which I followed up with what turned out to be my best time of the day of 51.7. This was the ‘fun run’ at the end of the morning session that didn’t count but I was happy with it nonetheless.

I then had the whole afternoon session to work on refining my technique but somehow couldn’t improve on my time, a couple of 52.0’s were the best I could muster . The tires were probably overheating a bit by then anyway – yes that must be it – the tires . I managed to twist Loren’s arm to do an instructor run by forfeiting one of my runs since time was marching on and we were trying to beat the rain. He ran a 50.2, I was really pleased to be within 2 seconds since the last Time I had Loren do a run 3 or 4 events ago he was 5 seconds quicker right off the bat. The biggest thing I have to remember is look ahead. I would somehow forget it from run to run, one run I would look ahead and elements of the course would flow and seem easy and the very next run (as Steve witnessed) I’d go charging through completely forgetting what was coming up and approach a tight turn way off line and way too fast. All in all though it was great to have the time to try different ideas and I learned a lot.

I have to say I absolutely had a blast the whole time. Thanks again to everyone for putting on such a fun event and all the friendly support & feedback. I’ll be back for more in Oldsmar for the Tampa Bay Downs event next month.

Dan

[tdinfl]

Thanks Chris for the detailed feedback. I saw some of that when I reviewed it, but definitely not all of it. No problem having more stuff to work on!

Appreciate your comments too Loren, and those I got from Tim and Jamie at work today. You're all way too generous, or just don't see me as a threat! :-)

See you all next time,
TD

[twistedwankel]

Thanks Chris for the detailed feedback. I saw some of that when I reviewed it, but definitely not all of it. No problem having more stuff to work on!

Appreciate your comments too Loren, and those I got from Tim and Jamie at work today. You're all way too generous, or just don't see me as a threat! :-)

See you all next time,
TD

Tony you know someone with computer skills will do a parallel run with Loren in my car Vs Your best and you will shit yourself.

Eventually, I'll post my 49.513 sec first run which proves I really enjoyed this course and wanted to make it last as long as possible Tony is the Prince of S1 "this week".

[Blue_Heron]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who made this event possible. The Noobs from Newberry, me, my son, my son in law, and his dad had a blast. We'll be back!

And thanks to Phil for the pics.
Dave

[twistedwankel]

Tim, is the man!!!
Congrats !!! ......like you need more HP 44.402 really?
I got stuck on 45s and couldn't go anywhere from there
I'll get you next time

Mario,
I run fastest when I'm pissed off too Go Tim, Go Mario.

[friskyflea]

Finally got to review videos from Sat/Sun. I've compared Sunday's lot and can see how I improved from Run 2 through 4 (my 1st run is pretty much/usually reconnaissance at this stage). Instrumental was a pony ride with Loren between runs 2-3, which encouraged me to get bolder with speed on the "straights" (well, as bold as you can in a Fit)... plus confirming a few other things. Four proved to be my best effort - then I tried pushing harder and sucked more - need to find the sweet spot that pushes smoothly yet harder and keeps the car happily balanced. At any rate, Run 4 https://youtu.be/wOeea8V0LM0 is open for forensic analysis - fire away.

Don't know how the PM went but the morning unfolded smoothly and in time with just slightly over skeleton worker crew so kudos to the organizers for running such a well oiled machine.

FF

[twistedwankel]

Dirt Farmers?
Top Tidy Dogs?

Okay. The top "Dirt Farmers" are Drew, Nate and Matt. At least in my mind and regarding my cars and Matt's (which I put in the dirt personally).

The "Top Tidy Dogs" are Loren and Les. (Both beat me by the most time in two totally different cars AND stayed clean).

I'll be back in June and we'll settle all this in the Vette. No more wannabees. No more Hiroshima Mushrooms.

Top Dirt Farmer?

King of Brooksville?

You know it will be beyond your wildest dreams. Show up in the summer. You may be next??

The Mayor of Dougopolous

[twistedwankel]

FF

Soroya side by side with Loren in my Vette would have beaten me in her "toy" on my first run at least.

Keep it up you might get a run or two in a Vette.

Doug

[shakedown067]

Eric got a lot of this course right, and it shows how close he was to cones and where. Good stuff. BUT, he did make at least one mistake that matched yours: After the turn-around, just like Chris said, you guys were both focused on getting through that kinky bit instead of being focused on SETTING UP to get a proper late apex on the last cone out of it.

Thanks Loren, and here I thought I really need to get closer. Yep, I caught the setup in the kink after the turn around AFTER going through it on my 5th run (oh, there went the speed I was looking for)...still didn't correct it on the fun run. Seat time. I....Need....More.....Seat.....Time (and 3.54 rear gears).

[Tim_M]

And one more...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkdcp6f ... e=youtu.be

Very slippery for first three runs...I hadn't counter-steered that much in this car in years! Great fun, certainly.

Really enjoyed the high speed sections...it really fit this car on this day. I was WOT after second cone of the outbound slalom to the 90 degree and again on the return 'wiggle' straight...likely the most gain for time along with the great starts AWD offers.

Interesting point...I shifted 6 times after the initial 1-2-3 accel. I missed gears on two runs of the 5...operator error. Much more engaging than my old Corvette (leave it in first!)

Left quite a bit of space on the cones so more time could have been gained, but not by me.

Big thanks for the images...I used them in the video even!

Fun event as always and appreciated the 6th run.

[Loren]

King of Brooksville's 45.157 in only two runs his first run was an impressive 45.577 on fairly cold tires.

Thanks, Doug!

I guess that run doesn't look as bad as I expected. There are 3 places where I clearly gave it too much throttle (Miatas don't have that kind of torque!) and had to countersteer. Once coming out of the turn-around, once entering the return-side straight, and once coming out of the last turn.

Otherwise, I wasn't quite where I wanted to be all the time, but not too far off. And it looks like I probably could have benefitted from going to the right on the option off of the start. That would have given me my 44.

[Loren]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who made this event possible. The Noobs from Newberry, me, my son, my son in law, and his dad had a blast. We'll be back!

Glad you guys had fun, and hope we see more of you at future events!

I took a drive in the green Miata. It's got some sort of timing issue. Possibly the timing belt off a tooth or something. The power isn't right, and it seemed to be pinging.

[Loren]

At any rate, Run 4 is open for forensic analysis - fire away.

Pretty solid run. I'm gonna have to watch it again...

Okay, the first thing that stands out is that entering the slalom, you're lifting way too early and then slowing too much. Should be on the gas right up until the point that you need to brake, braking hard, and then doing the slalom. What you're doing is great for someone who's really green and isn't SURE where to brake. But, that shouldn't be you at this point.

Second thing is immediately after. How do I know you slowed too much? Because you were ABLE to accelerate between the tight slalom cones. If you'd slowed just enough to make it, you'd have squeaked through and not been able to accelerate until you were on the way out of that segment. Then it would have been one hit to the throttle and in it all the way through the slalom. (which you were)

Really not much more I can say. I could nitpick your harsh left at the end of the slalom. You didn't quite get all the way to the left like you probably intended. Why? Because you needed to get some weight on the front tires is my guess. You yanked the wheel, and some of your turning energy went to sliding. If you left-foot brake, you'd tap the brake there to set the front end down and turn in, then tap the brake again before the right to adjust speed and set the front end down for that turn. If you don't left-foot brake, then maybe a well-timed throttle lift for the left, and brake before the right. (I LFB to a fault, so I really don't know how to explain where and how you should throttle-lift)

When you hit the rev limit at the end of the long straight, it feels like you lifted because you hit the rev limiter. You could have stayed in it for a couple more hits of the rev limiter before making the left, THEN brake where you need to for the right.

If you have ABS, you could be braking a lot harder in a few places. Entering the slalom, entering the turn-around, and entering the final right-hander. Braking harder means staying on the gas later, which is an easy way to shave some time. Even without ABS, you could probably be braking a little later and harder... it's just not as easy!

Your lines are really good, though. You're down to chasing the little details.

[nc4me]

And one more...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkdcp6f ... e=youtu.be

Very slippery for first three runs...I hadn't counter-steered that much in this car in years! Great fun, certainly.

Really enjoyed the high speed sections...it really fit this car on this day. I was WOT after second cone of the outbound slalom to the 90 degree and again on the return 'wiggle' straight...likely the most gain for time along with the great starts AWD offers.

Interesting point...I shifted 6 times after the initial 1-2-3 accel. I missed gears on two runs of the 5...operator error. Much more engaging than my old Corvette (leave it in first!)

Left quite a bit of space on the cones so more time could have been gained, but not by me.

Big thanks for the images...I used them in the video even!

Fun event as always and appreciated the 6th run.

No no no…You were fast because you went to the right side of the optional cone at the start and hauled ass to the slalom without lifting like I did . I couldn't believe how many people kept lifting to get to the left of that cone when it was slower to go that way .

[Loren]

I'm not sure how much difference that really made. I didn't do it.

In my car, I just folded the "lift" into a shift point, so it didn't really cost me anything. In Doug's car, if I trusted that I wasn't going to kick the back end out, maybe going to the right and burying first gear might have been faster.

Definitely not a "night and day" kind of difference, though.

Tim just drove the whole course really close to "right", and his car is freakin' fast!

[friskyflea]

Pretty solid run. I'm gonna have to watch it again...

Okay, the first thing that stands out is that entering the slalom, you're lifting way too early and then slowing too much. Should be on the gas right up until the point that you need to brake, braking hard, and then doing the slalom. What you're doing is great for someone who's really green and isn't SURE where to brake. But, that shouldn't be you at this point.


Second thing is immediately after. How do I know you slowed too much? Because you were ABLE to accelerate between the tight slalom cones. If you'd slowed just enough to make it, you'd have squeaked through and not been able to accelerate until you were on the way out of that segment. Then it would have been one hit to the throttle and in it all the way through the slalom. (which you were)

Really not much more I can say. I could nitpick your harsh left at the end of the slalom. You didn't quite get all the way to the left like you probably intended. Why? Because you needed to get some weight on the front tires is my guess. You yanked the wheel, and some of your turning energy went to sliding. If you left-foot brake, you'd tap the brake there to set the front end down and turn in, then tap the brake again before the right to adjust speed and set the front end down for that turn. If you don't left-foot brake, then maybe a well-timed throttle lift for the left, and brake before the right. (I LFB to a fault, so I really don't know how to explain where and how you should throttle-lift)

When you hit the rev limit at the end of the long straight, it feels like you lifted because you hit the rev limiter. You could have stayed in it for a couple more hits of the rev limiter before making the left, THEN brake where you need to for the right.

If you have ABS, you could be braking a lot harder in a few places. Entering the slalom, entering the turn-around, and entering the final right-hander. Braking harder means staying on the gas later, which is an easy way to shave some time. Even without ABS, you could probably be braking a little later and harder... it's just not as easy!

Your lines are really good, though. You're down to chasing the little details.

----------
I think for the Test N' Tune my first order of the day will be to become acquainted with my brakes and find out how much distance it takes to stop the car. I did go down a notch in pads this past Dec from Hawk HP+ to their Street 5.0 (they didn't have their Street Race Pads out yet and that may still be more pad than what I need); I have never really tested them on hard stops. And next, maybe learn how to LFB?

The rev limiter issue will need tincture of time: in every day driving that sound triggers a lift reflex, or an up-shift; and I may want neither under some AX conditions. It's going to take getting used to, both the sound and the unholy sputtering.

Yes, the devil is in the details.
Thanks.
FF

[Loren]

You can't learn to LFB at an autocross. It requires learning some habits that simply can't be learned in a day.

If you want to learn to do it, start by using your left foot to brake when coming to a stop in your daily driving. Just shift to neutral and train your left foot to brake smoothly. If you're like most of us, you've always braked with your right foot, and only clutched with your left foot. So, all it knows how to do is go to the floor quickly... not good for braking.

Once you've given yourself a week or so to teach your left foot to modulate, then find something like a left turn that you can fly through. Approach it with no traffic, be in the appropriate gear, use LFB to slow for the turn and then accelerate out of it. The first time you get that right, you'll know that it was worth learning.

THEN you'll be ready to try it out at an autocross. But, you'll still spend the next year or three learning "the dance" before your left foot will instinctively be on the pedal that you want it to be on. (pro tip: trying to brake hard with your left foot while it's on the clutch pedal is ineffective, and slamming the brake pedal to the floor when you meant to push in the clutch is unnerving)

So, if you want to try it at the T&T, you need to start training your left foot now. Teaching it not only how to modulate the brake, but to move back and forth between the clutch and brake.

As for the rev limiter, Honda put it there to protect the engine. Trust Honda. You can't hurt the engine by banging the rev limiter. In a situation like in that video, if you stay full throttle, you won't accelerate any more, but you at least won't slow down. As soon as you lift, you start slowing down.

[tdinfl]

Thanks Doug, that was a good idea. Kind of depressing but very educational!

http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/552cf6 ... driver.php

[friskyflea]

You can't learn to LFB at an autocross.

I should have separated those two sentences :-) that'd be like deciding to learn how to jump without stirrups at your next competition. *It was nice knowing you!* LOL. No, too much muscle memory to un-do. I could practice it coming back to the grid if there's no car in front of me in the lane I park in. I started lessons this morning in the truck: it's got softer brakes so I don't end up kissing the windshield. I've got some quiet straightways that I can use to learn to modulate the right amount foot pressure.

BTW, I looked at my last 2 runs after reading your comments and some of the suggestions you made I did try, but without the proper braking I tumbled into other problems. The good news is that I understood what happened and know what I need to do to fix it.

As for a confused left foot... beats a confused RIGHT foot!

Thanks again for the feedback. Anyone else that wants to throw in their 2 cents wirth plz do.

FF