POST April 12th Event

[tdinfl]

Here's my best run 47.07, good enough for 1st in S1. But, slower than four folks from other, less fortunate stock classes. Appreciate any thoughts about where I'm giving up so much time. Tim beat me by 2.5 seconds! (great driving Tim, can't wait to see the video).

It was fun running in the afternoon for a change, and catch up with some of the folks I normally only see on the way out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONL2Wqy2EA4

Have a great Monday,
TD

[jaball77]

Pictures: As with all the pictures I post here, feel free to use them if you like them. I was trying a few "experimental" angles and compositions this time and some turned out nicely I think. Others not so much but what can you do. I'm going to start uploading to flickr soon so my photo links may change.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pl2otkjknu3u ... t6q-a?dl=0

This is a great picture! Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pl2otkjknu3u ... 9.jpg?dl=0

[twistedwankel]

Season Points are updated.

If my math is right, if I take first at all remaining points events, I can win S2 by one point. No pressure or anything.

You might want to take away Brian's Pts since he was a no show. Will make Soroya happy.

[Shifterracer]

Great pics Phil! This one pretty much sums how I did today Really should run with some gas in the car...couldn't get it to hook at all! Great job Brian M! Time for me to start making some changes to the stock setup!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pl2otkjknu3u ... 2.jpg?dl=0

Brian's car is totally stock legal for SCCA F Street so if you are going to be concerned with your "obvious" advantages just buy some more gas and practice alot

So by "obvious" you must be referring to my driving skills because i have no idea why you think the 1LE is a cheater car for S3. Would it make you feel better if i beat you from S1 and not S3?

And yes, I'm fully aware of what stock legal SCCA rules allow, and my car is so far from that it's not even funny. I spent MANY years learning this in ohio when i ran with nationally prepped cars and drivers on a monthly basis for a LONG TIME! So i hate to bust your bubble, i didn't loose because i need more seat time (always welcome more thou...love to drive), it's because i wasn't prepared properly to take on a great driver in a proven national prepped car. I even called it in the morning that i was going to loose to the mustang (told Chris, Sean, and Jeff this) because i saw he was WAY more prepared then me just in how he was getting his car ready in the morning....seen that process MANY times before hand! So, you can save your so called expert scca national autox knowledge for a newbie that doesn't know the difference.

Just for the record...I NEVER questioned the legality of Brian's car in FS or him being in FAST S3. I loved the challenge!!!

[nc4me]

Here's my best run 47.07, good enough for 1st in S1. But, slower than four folks from other, less fortunate stock classes. Appreciate any thoughts about where I'm giving up so much time. Tim beat me by 2.5 seconds! (great driving Tim, can't wait to see the video).

It was fun running in the afternoon for a change, and catch up with some of the folks I normally only see on the way out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONL2Wqy2EA4

Have a great Monday,
TD

50 second mark you had to lift to get to the left of that optional cone. I found for me that staying right I was able to floor it all the way from the start to the slalom. Obviously your car has more power, but I still think not having to lift there would have saved time. 57 mark you start to accelerate where you should have, but I think you could have accelerated through the rest of the slalom a little more (from 58-1:00 you were maintaining speed but the slalom was getting faster, you should have been accelerating at least lightly through the whole thing). 1:05 could have taken the right turn faster and you approached slow (you could have braked a little harder later). You then turned late at 1:07 and that made you swing wide and delay getting on the gas to the turnaround. After the turnaround you got behind the course and got more and more behind as you went through the first three turns. At 1:16 you are straight when you are passing that cone and that meant you could not get far enough to the right for the second cone at 1:18. At 1:18 you aren't even straight as you pass it you are slightly angled toward the grass (you should be slightly angled toward the center of the runway. you are getting further behind). Then if you pause the video at 1:20 you can really see just how far behind you got. You should be further from the cone and as you pass it you should be angled toward the grass slightly so you can start to accelerate for that straightaway. Instead you had to lift a lot and try to get pointed the right direction and that lack of speed carried through around the first cone at 1:22. At that point you were finally speeding up. Remember you need to go slow in some places to go faster. You were trying to go to fast around those first three cones after the turnaround and that made you go really slow for the straight. Had you set your self up better and gone a little slower around the first three cones you would have ultimately been faster as you could accelerate through the straight.The rest of it was pretty good. By fixing those things I say you could have gone 1.5-2 seconds faster.

[Loren]

Relax, Mike. Doug's just poking at you with a stick. We don't think your car is a cheater, it's just that a couple people complained that it was an overdog in S3 when you first started running it, so that's the "inside joke" around here. You know that.

Brian is most definitely skilled and prepared!

But, before you go throwing money at your car... consider that you got beat by a stock Miata yesterday. I know you're a good driver, usually very good. But, maybe there's something to the notion of practice? There was obviously something about THIS course that you (and a lot of other people) need to figure out. I'm not sure what it is, but it is significant... and throwing money at the car is not the answer. Figure out what that thing was that you just didn't "get" on this course, and practice it!

Serious discussion time... what WAS it about this course?

I ran it in 45.7 in my car, 45.1 in Doug's Vette. I was sloppy as hell in the Vette, could have easily done low-to-mid-44's with a few more runs in it. I never get a launch right in my car, could have been a tenth faster there, and at least a couple tenths faster in a few other places... if I could have put it together, the car had a low 45 in it.

My feeling is that the course required precise braking, not just where to brake, but how much to brake. A lot of people were braking too much. It also required precise placement at the same time. Was that what was killing everyone? Or was it the 50-foot spacing on the first few slalom cones that they slowed down too much (or not enough) for? Or the combination of all of that, plus other things?

For the high-powered RWD cars, it also required precise throttle control. (I learned that driving Doug's Vette) You couldn't use full throttle everywhere that you wanted to... and if you tried, you'd get squirrely and possibly throw yourself off-line.

But, I don't believe for a second that your 1LE needed any mods to be faster yesterday. And, it was more than enough car to beat Brian Meyers yesterday, because even he wasn't fully on his game.

"Push harder, suck less."

[Rosko]

What a fun course.

I was happy to have two of my nephews with me. Thanks to everyone who gave a ride to Chris (Eric and Loren, maybe more?). He was blown away, but ended up getting motion sickness

I now know what a challenge it is in a two driver car! We barely stopped moving during our runs. I think it was exacerbated by the small run group, though.

My tires were getting so hot that you could feel the heat coming off of them from a couple of feet away, even after spraying water on them. As usual, they just got worse, and worse. I wasn't expecting outstanding results given the conditions, but I sure had a good time co-driving with Austin. He really impressed me with his driving. He was fairly quick straight away.

On my first run, I took off, and heard a big bump in the hatchback. I cut short and returned to grid. I had put my cooler full of water in the back, so I could cool the tires. Nothing like 2 inches of water in the spare tire well! Brian lent me his water pump, afterward. Thanks Brian! It was a bit embarrassing, but I've suffered worse.

Excellent driving, Trevor. I was pretty sure you were going to thump me, and you did by a very nice margin.

Kudos also to my buddy, Chris Wojtas. He was able to grab the final spot on the podium in S4. His son, Josh, will be a force to be reckoned with when he gets some tires!

[Loren]

Tony, I'm not going to reiterate everything that Chris said, but it is inisightful. I was watching your video more from a "feel" and sound perspective. There were a lot of places where you were just getting on the gas too late and not "decisively" enough. (take that with a grain of salt, I drive a Miata with no power, so it's easier for me to commit!)

Watch this video of Eric, though:
https://youtu.be/s6JXMX7xW-g

Eric got a lot of this course right, and it shows how close he was to cones and where. Good stuff. BUT, he did make at least one mistake that matched yours: After the turn-around, just like Chris said, you guys were both focused on getting through that kinky bit instead of being focused on SETTING UP to get a proper late apex on the last cone out of it.

The place to be was ON the cone wall to your left as you approached the last apex before going into the big straight. That gave you a favorable line to blend into the straight, and got you on the gas as early and hard as possible.

Said it before, saying it again: The most important turn on ANY race course is the one before the longest straight.

[Loren]

I think Doug got a video of my 2nd run in his car (the 45.1). Could be an interesting video. (and will be chock full of mistakes!)

[nathanwilliams617]

Serious discussion time... what WAS it about this course?

My feeling is that the course required precise braking, not just where to brake, but how much to brake. A lot of people were braking too much.

My biggest error, that I noticed, was not being used to carrying that much speed. After my second run and Les telling me take my skirt off (smh) I was dang near flat out in the outgoing slalom, but then I did not brake nearly enough, nor was I quick enough to get over early, far to the left to properly take the right hander before the turn around. I Plowed and all the cones I hit were at that spot. Had similar issues after the fast bit on the return side
The course was FAST and required much more braking and quicker inputs than I was use to...

[twistedwankel]

I think Doug got a video of my 2nd run in his car (the 45.1). Could be an interesting video. (and will be chock full of mistakes!)

I'm still trying to edit it down in size and my Window's Movie Maker needed an upgrade too, I guess? Hopefully I'll get it fixed soon before I leave and on Utube or something shareable?

I'm amazed how fast your run was as looks pretty "calm" only one tiny bobble I could see.

Doug

[twistedwankel]

[
So by "obvious" you must be referring to my driving skills because i have no idea why you think the 1LE is a cheater car for S3. Would it make you feel better if i beat you from S1 and not S3?
!!

I personally think that would be awesome if you ran S1 and it would give the guys in S3 a needed rest. We all run pretty close to each other every event even on our 300u or daily driven in some cases tires and will welcome the higher level of competition to keep us honest. I learned "for sure" that my car "as is" can be driven over 2 seconds faster than I could muster simply by utilizing better drivers and I have the video to prove it

See you June 6th.

[Shifterracer]

Relax, Mike. Doug's just poking at you with a stick. We don't think your car is a cheater, it's just that a couple people complained that it was an overdog in S3 when you first started running it, so that's the "inside joke" around here. You know that.

Brian is most definitely skilled and prepared!

But, before you go throwing money at your car... consider that you got beat by a stock Miata yesterday. I know you're a good driver, usually very good. But, maybe there's something to the notion of practice? There was obviously something about THIS course that you (and a lot of other people) need to figure out. I'm not sure what it is, but it is significant... and throwing money at the car is not the answer. Figure out what that thing was that you just didn't "get" on this course, and practice it!

But, I don't believe for a second that your 1LE needed any mods to be faster yesterday. And, it was more than enough car to beat Brian Meyers yesterday, because even he wasn't fully on his game.

"Push harder, suck less."

Oh yeah Loren, i just took the opportunity to poke back at him. I think it's pretty cool to even be considered worthy of protesting! When i first started taking this drug called racing/autox, i never thought i'd get to that point, so yeah that doesn't bother me. I just took a little offense to the SCCA legal comment. Kind of made it sound like i was out talking about his car being illegal, which i never did or would do because i know the rules. Granted Doug and i don't talk much, so he doesn't know the back ground on me, nor i him. I did my best not to make my reply to controversial or tick anybody off.

no worries about me throwing money at the car on high tech parts, i have no intentions at this point to run at nationals. That's one of the many reason why i love running with FAST. I don't see anybody wasting their next paycheck on shocks with "special" damping to up the next guy. For the most part everybody is out to have a good time and enjoy what they have. All I'm planning to do is correct the alignment to cut down on me going through tires so quickly! so i'm actually trying to save myself some money

Overall i loved the track! I hated not being able to hook up thou coming out of the tight stuff

[Carracer]

Relax, Mike. Doug's just poking at you with a stick. We don't think your car is a cheater, it's just that a couple people complained that it was an overdog in S3 when you first started running it, so that's the "inside joke" around here. You know that.

Brian is most definitely skilled and prepared!

But, before you go throwing money at your car... consider that you got beat by a stock Miata yesterday. I know you're a good driver, usually very good. But, maybe there's something to the notion of practice? There was obviously something about THIS course that you (and a lot of other people) need to figure out. I'm not sure what it is, but it is significant... and throwing money at the car is not the answer. Figure out what that thing was that you just didn't "get" on this course, and practice it!

Serious discussion time... what WAS it about this course?

I ran it in 45.7 in my car, 45.1 in Doug's Vette. I was sloppy as hell in the Vette, could have easily done low-to-mid-44's with a few more runs in it. I never get a launch right in my car, could have been a tenth faster there, and at least a couple tenths faster in a few other places... if I could have put it together, the car had a low 45 in it.

My feeling is that the course required precise braking, not just where to brake, but how much to brake. A lot of people were braking too much. It also required precise placement at the same time. Was that what was killing everyone? Or was it the 50-foot spacing on the first few slalom cones that they slowed down too much (or not enough) for? Or the combination of all of that, plus other things?

...

"Push harder, suck less."

For me this course was difficult to "feel". I never got. My videos tell me I'm both under and over driving car. I do have the excuse that my tires would get very-very hot so they felt different on the run up then on the run back ( BTW big thanks to Jamie for letting me use his sprayer ).

I didn't find the first slalom difficult, but the element after that was so hard to set up for without over slowing the car.

Still had fun somehow

[Loren]

Oh yeah Loren, i just took the opportunity to poke back at him.

I don't see anybody wasting their next paycheck on shocks with "special" damping to up the next guy. For the most part everybody is out to have a good time and enjoy what they have.

Most of the experienced guys don't. But, a lot of the newbs (and pre-newbs) do. They get it in their head that they can spend money and be lots faster at autocross... that's why I always try to point out when that is false. I hate to see people throw a bunch of go-fast parts at their car to "prepare it for their first autocross" only to end up putting their car in a class that it can't be competitive!

All I'm planning to do is correct the alignment to cut down on me going through tires so quickly! so i'm actually trying to save myself some money

I recently did the same thing, I can relate.

[jaball77]

And yes, I'm fully aware of what stock legal SCCA rules allow, and my car is so far from that it's not even funny. I spent MANY years learning this in ohio when i ran with nationally prepped cars and drivers on a monthly basis for a LONG TIME! So i hate to bust your bubble, i didn't loose because i need more seat time (always welcome more thou...love to drive), it's because i wasn't prepared properly to take on a great driver in a proven national prepped car. I even called it in the morning that i was going to loose to the mustang (told Chris, Sean, and Jeff this) because i saw he was WAY more prepared then me just in how he was getting his car ready in the morning....seen that process MANY times before hand! So, you can save your so called expert scca national autox knowledge for a newbie that doesn't know the difference.

Just for the record...I NEVER questioned the legality of Brian's car in FS or him being in FAST S3. I loved the challenge!!!

Huh? SCCA rules for "Street" (and formerly "Stock") are MORE RESTRICTIVE than FAST's rules. For Street it's basically alignment, shocks, exhaust, and you can change ONE sway bar. You can't even use wider wheels or wheels with an offset more than +/- 7mm. FAST's "S" classes allow way more mods.

Yes, Brian's car is prepped to the edge of the SCCA rules, but even at SCCA events it's not an overdog. Not only has Brian doing this longer than a lot of our drivers have been alive, he's GOOD.

It's OK to get beaten. I got beaten by Loren in a stock Miata for chrissakes. It wasn't anybody's fault but my own.



....Actually, no, it WAS Loren's fault because he made me work Tech and I didn't get to walk the course!

Bastard.

[Loren]

....Actually, no, it WAS Loren's fault because he made me work Tech and I didn't get to walk the course!

Bastard.

[jaball77]

....Actually, no, it WAS Loren's fault because he made me work Tech and I didn't get to walk the course!

Bastard.

In the end it doesn't matter much except for overall time bragging rights... No way in hell was I going to run a low 44 to beat Chris.

Although I'm still in 1st in M2 due to the fact that I've shown up for more events... So if Chris doesn't show up I might have a chance to take M2 this year.

[twistedwankel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yidomaEisv0

King of Brooksville's 45.157 in only two runs his first run was an impressive 45.577 on fairly cold tires.

Here is Loren "having way too much fun once again". Love the verbal hassles he gets coming to the line. Duck's back!! This is why Loren doesn't need a car payment - he can get it out of his system in borrowed cars:)

Hope this works for everyone. What a PIA took me literally hours to get this thing into the cloud. I should use the camera more just to stay current with the editing and upload software on my aging computers. Windows 8.1 was even worse as I'm not used to it at all yet.

[BigBlue]

Bah. Car was better but I was worse. Oh well. Still managed to squeak into 2nd in M2.

The course was awesome. I'd love to see more like it.

Thanks again Jason for allowing me to flog your car for a few runs today. And I concur, your car feels really better than the last time I took a run in it. I'm betting you'll be flying after a bit more seat time.

Great job out there from everyone. Another smooth, fun FAST event. Thanks.