Da Groj

It’s time for a set of tires on the Z and I use the car for autocross, spirited weekend drives, and the occasional road trip, so no race tires. I am running 15 inch by 7 inch wheels and can go 225 45 15 max because of rub and don’t want to roll/cut my fenders or go to smaller diameter coil overs. I don’t want to move to a 16 or 17 inch wheel because in my opinion, it strays from the classic look.

Looking at Tire Rack there are three I am interested in based on reading reviews and talking to folks:
1. Ventus R-S4
2. Toyo Proxes R888R
3. BF Goodrich G-Force Rival 1.5S

So far I am leaning towards the Toyos because of free shipping. Anyone have any thought, opinions, or rants on these? Anyone prefer one to the others?

The Toyos are 100 treadwear, which will put you in race tire class with FAST, if that matters. And, with the occasional road trip, wet traction might be a consideration. Gonna guess, just by tread pattern, that the Hankooks would be better in that regard.

That aside, yeah, pick the less expensive ones.

What Steve said about the Toyos. They might not be the best in the wet. And they're gonna put you in R1. Otherwise, Toyo track tires have a reputation for wearing like iron and not heat-cycling as quickly as a lot of track tires do. They're not "the best". The old adage is that compared to the best tires, they suck... but, they suck for a really long time! That was the old RA1. But, I suspect the R888 is in the same category.

Another thing to consider is are the tires directional and/or asymmetrical? Directional isn't a big deal. Pretty common these days, better for evacuating water. It just means you can't rotate left-to-right. But, for autocrossers, the question of whether they are asymmetrical is more important sometimes. If you've got a car that wears the outside edges of the tire first (as most do, particularly on the front), you might want to be able to reverse-mount the tire at half-life so that you put the worn edge on the inside and the fresher edge on the outside. Can't do that with an asymmetrical tire.

Rivals are asymmetrical. (I'm proud of myself for not calling them asymetrical pieces of shit... I really don't like them, though it's mostly for that reason)

I'd buy the Hankooks. Or look at Direzza ZIII's. Or, if you're shopping for cheap, look for Federal 595RS-R or RS-RR. They're not easy to find, but they're probably the best bang for the buck. Pretty close to as good as the "top dog" street/autocross tires, but much less expensive.

Loren wrote:Rivals are asymmetrical. (I'm proud of myself for not calling them asymetrical pieces of shit... I really don't like them, though it's mostly for that reason)

That's pretty weak, since I can't remember seeing a set on any of your cars.

I've run a few sets of Rivals on the Miata, including this season. Even without being able to flip them, I've been able to get 120 runs (20-25 events) from them; for comparison, I squeezed about 150 runs out of the (flipped) Bridgestones I ran last year, although they were hard as stone by the end. A Z-car, with a strut front end, might be a little harder on tires, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a full year out of them pretty easily.

That all said, the Hankooks are not a bad tire -- Matt's car sticks just fine on them unless you open the throttle too early in a turn -- and they're $80/set cheaper. That pays Carl to mount and balance them, plus a tank of gas.

Jamie wrote:

Loren wrote:Rivals are asymmetrical. (I'm proud of myself for not calling them asymetrical pieces of shit... I really don't like them, though it's mostly for that reason)

That's pretty weak, since I can't remember seeing a set on any of your cars.

Ben and I ran a set on his Miata when we co-drove in S4. They didn't last as long as we wanted them to because we needed to flip them and couldn't. Way too much money for way too little use. And they were downright scary in the rain at half-tread.

Asymmetrical tires have their benefits, and I'm almost certain that BFG uses their "softer inside tire wall trick" to make the Rival work as if the car had more negative camber. Good stuff. But, for an autocross car, especailly most of the ones that I drive that do like to chew up outer tread blocks... I just much prefer a tire that gives me the option of flipping it on the rim.

If I'm not paying for them, the Rival is a fine tire! Did a few sessions at The Firm in Ryan's Miata on fat Rivals. No complaints.

You aren't fast enough to care are you? Buy some cheap Sumitomo's or something like Kuhmo's until you get faster. They last almost forever in that size AND are AS. You can afford two sets of rims and tires if you drive an old car with no payments? Sell it and buy a Miata? They are fast on any tires. Datsuns are only fast in CSP.

Thank you for all the replies. The directional and tire rotation gave me more to consider. I may have messed up the names, I would like to stay above the 200 treadwear. The Z is sketchy enough in the rain! Whatever I decide on, they will be better than the cheap Falkens I am on now and the cheap Kuhmos I was on before.

I would go for the R-S4's. They probably are the most durable out of all the 200tw tires plus they're pretty damn good. Not the best of the best in terms of peak grip but high up there. I daily my R-S4's and autocross them and no complaints. I haven't ran rivals or the 71's so I couldn't tell you anything about those but those will wear a lot quick if care about the wear rate. Falken 615k+'s lasted me a year with daily driving and at least 1 autocross event per month.

If you want to feel a big difference in dry grip get the Rivals. They are in a different league than the Falkens or even the RS4s. The downside is they are not great in the wet, won't last as long as the other options and can't be flipped*
*But people still run them flipped.

The RS4 will be better than the Falkens but won't blow you away. They lack that last 15% of grip you can find in tires like the Rival S or RE71R. I have no experience in the wet with the RS4 but the tread blocks look big so it should be ok. Contrary to my experience with them they seem to like heat and last a good long time for a 200TW tire.

In the everyday and wallet the RS4 is the better tire, at the limit of traction for a few fleeting seconds the Rival S is the much better tire.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.js ... mpare1=yes

Drop to a 205/50/15 is same dia and still fits up to a 7.5" wheel. $400/set are the Spec tire for SCCA twins. I've heard good things about their road worthiness and wear qualities. Sometimes a less wide tire can out handle a fat one squeezed on a rim.

Have them drop shipped to Carlspeed in Oldsmar and just show up with $60 in hand for the best mounting and balance you'll ever get.

Doug is onto something there. I'd consider a set of killer 205/50's, especially if they're cheaper.

Thanks for the suggestion but I can get a 225 on my 7 inch rim. Having lurked here and heard Carls name brought up, can I get more info? $60 for all four wheels/tires?

isnt a 225 really pinched on a 7in wheel?

But yeah Carl is the guy to go to for local tire mounting, his thread
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2336

aw614 wrote:isnt a 225 really pinched on a 7in wheel?

But yeah Carl is the guy to go to for local tire mounting, his thread
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2336

For a ES/S4 Miata at the National autocross level the current fast setup is a 205 RE71R or a 225 Rival S on a 6in rim.

Handles the wet with no issues, quiet on the highway, durable, great at autocross and inexpensive @ $84 a pop for some 205s! They are Federal's 595 RS-Rs.

https://www.onlinetires.com/search/vehi ... age_1.html

Look into the actual measurements specs, they ran big. I use to run 275s Hankooks Rs3s and if I remember correctly the Federal's 265s measured about the same width hence I run 265s Federal RSRs now. The 205s may work for yah...

I heard those were a super loud tire, the rsrr. But if your car is already loud then probably doesn't matter as much .

Carracer wrote:For a ES/S4 Miata at the National autocross level the current fast setup is a 205 RE71R or a 225 Rival S on a 6in rim.

I assume they are taller not shorter? Carl is the one to talk to about aspect ratios and what's doable. He was able to get a stiff 100 race 295/30/18 barely on my 10.5" wheels so flipping later was out of the question without possible bead damage. In the future I'll go with a taller tire for ease of mounting. 35's since they now make a 305/35 in the same tire or something else about 1" taller for sure.

Goodyear once had a R tire spec sheet misprint stating the proper max size for a 6.5x16" rim was 225/50/16 so I got them and became hated by the tire guys trying to get them on. They weren't any faster than 205's on an AWD car but there was the psychological advantage of course. Tire pressures were a tough call too + they weighed more.

twistedwankel wrote:Carl is the one to talk to about aspect ratios and what's doable. He was able to get a stiff 100 race 295/30/18 barely on my 10.5" wheels so flipping later was out of the question without possible bead damage.

Carl had no problem putting 225/45-15 Rivals on my 6.5 inch wheels.

205 re-71's or 225 Rival S. Period.
The other choices are a step down in grip. You will have to weigh the cost difference according to your budget. Even the lesser tier budget tires will be a big step up in grip over the street tires you are running now.

Loren, you were likely on the 1st gen Rivals. The new Rivals are great, wet or dry. They displaced enough water Saturday to knock my bumper cover off, and felt fine in the wet last couple of events. I am 6 months and 12(?) autocrosses on mine and while I may replace them in the fall, they would make it to the end of the year. That's a Ron-load of runs!
Also, nobody cares about road noise.

Good point, they were earlier Rivals.

And, while the Rivals and RE-71's are "the best". There is a small group of other tires that all fall within a half second on a typical autocross course. If you "need" that last half second, then you spend your money and you don't complain.