Da Groj

Can't attend this Saturday, so there's a open spot in the afternoon.

Solar wrote:Can't attend this Saturday, so there's a open spot in the afternoon.

Aaaand, it's gone already.

Sorry you can't make it, Brian.

My buddy Mike can't make this one so there is another afternoon spot open.

So, it is my fault that there is a "pin" turn on this course, it was my idea so any "hating" can be directed at me. Personally, I love pin/pivot/hairpin whatever you like to call them turns. They, more than any one single autocross element, separate the men from the boys IMO. Rather than looking at them with disdain, perhaps look at them as the opportunity that they truly are, one single corner on the course that when executed properly can give you significant time advantage over your competition, no other single turn can provide such opportunity. A properly executed pivot cone turn can net you at least a second over an competitor that blows it horribly, second + advantages are hard to come by in autocross. Proper execution really isn't that hard and if I can do them in a Corvette anyone not driving a Suburban should be able to. Patience is the key and its much better to go too slow than too fast, much better. Also, "tight is right" this mantra applies to everything in autocross for the most part, the tight light is the right line particularly in a pin turn.

No worries Les, haters gonna hate...

And everyone else will enjoy the hell out of the course. I know I will...

lddavis91 wrote:and if I can do them in a Corvette anyone not driving a Suburban should be able to.

+1 The corvette's torque is a real hindrance digging out of low speed corners.




Which corner does yours most accurately represent?

I think pin turns in general are acceptable in certain situations, but looking at the map that one is going to suck. It's the closeness of the gate to the pin that will make it suck.

If you got rid of the gate, moved the gate further away, or widened the gate, it would be less painful.

I think the entry/exit gate will be opened up compared to how it appears on the course map as long as I am not overruled.

Like Steve said, haters gonna hate. The hairpin will be challenging to drive. ( A challenging autocross course!) And like Les said, screwing it up could cost you a second or more. But, it won't cost you a bunch of cone penalties. Nor is it a "forced tight" turn. Don't feel like your car can take it tight? Or just don't think it's fun to drive it that way? Want to kick the tail out and drift it or grab the hand brake? Hey, you've got room to do it your way.

The course won't be set up a lot different from the map, but the map is not perfect, and the cones on the map are NOT to scale. That cluster of cones marking the pin represents 12-15 feet on the map. In reality, that cluster won't cover more than about 3-4 feet. The entrance gate? It's about 25 feet on the map, but those cones aren't 3-4 feet across like they are on the map... so it could be more like 30 feet and still be "accurate" to the map.

Some people don't like hairpins. (and some people do) We get it. We don't do them often. Deal with it.

Y'all should be really happy that I made this hairpin about 3x the size of what Les had originally drawn, and vetoed his 25-foot spaced 3-cone slalom before the finish.

I'll be there with my superlegera exhaust. Loren said that it was perfectly acceptable.

lddavis91 wrote:Proper execution really isn't that hard and if I can do them in a Corvette anyone not driving a Suburban should be able to. .

No problem in the suburban. I can stop by right quick for a test run Saturday morning if need be. This thing has a MUCH tighter turning radius than the vette.

Goumba wrote:I'll be there with my superlegera exhaust. Loren said that it was perfectly acceptable.

This is a good time to mention... (this isn't really directed at Johnny)

We do have a non-specific noise restriction at SPC. There is an apartment complex next door, and they WILL complain if we're too loud. If you think your car might be too loud, it probably is. If WE have to tell you that your car is too loud, you might find your car banned from the site until you fix it. If you want a number, think 90db. But we don't have a meter. We know what "too loud" is. So do you.

The last time the Porsche club ran at SPC recently, they actually had police respond to the event for a noise complaint. We don't want that to happen to us. We're serious about this.

Walmart across the street sells potatoes.

Also, I'm just so glad there's not a "twice around the circle" notation that I'm giddy. Shamu would think he's back at SeaWorld doing tricks.

Loren wrote:Y'all should be really happy that I made this hairpin about 3x the size of what Les had originally drawn, and vetoed his 25-foot spaced 3-cone slalom before the finish.

That point is certainly debatable, changing the hairpin from a single cone to a cluster of cones 4' wide will not change the line I take much at all, that is a token difference at best. Just FYI for anyone purposefully taking this corner wide rather than as tight, you are doing it wrong, of this much I am absolutely certain, it is your prerogative and Loren opened up the back wall allowing for this, but don't do it. You want to enter wide yes, but as your apexing the turn you should be as close as possible without hitting the cone/cones, after the apex, use the throttle to drift out as wide as the exit gate will allow, and yes, this applies to Miatae as well. I have pressed from the very beginning for a wider entry/exit gate, my original map has it at least twice as wide, this does actually impact the fast line in and out significantly.

The tight slalom at the end, was as discussed in email, way too tight, you were absolutely right about that, that was a rookie course map design mistake, I wasn't thinking about scale effectively at all when I put that down and would never have actually put something like that down with cones, I'm used to just pacing those off physically.

Loren wrote: This is a good time to mention… (this isn't really directed at Johnny)

I was just busting chops. The stock muffler will be going back on the car today. Rotary + 1 straight through muffler is waaaay too loud at SPC for sure.

Goumba wrote:

Loren wrote: This is a good time to mention… (this isn't really directed at Johnny)

I was just busting chops. The stock muffler will be going back on the car today. Rotary + 1 straight through muffler is waaaay too loud at SPC for sure.

That's why it wasn't directed at you. But, it bears mentioning from time to time.

jaball77 wrote:I think pin turns in general are acceptable in certain situations, but looking at the map that one is going to suck. It's the closeness of the gate to the pin that will make it suck.

If you got rid of the gate, moved the gate further away, or widened the gate, it would be less painful.

Sounds like I'm being overruled, again. Sorry.

Goumba wrote:

Loren wrote: This is a good time to mention… (this isn't really directed at Johnny)

I was just busting chops. The stock muffler will be going back on the car today. Rotary + 1 straight through muffler is waaaay too loud at SPC for sure.

S2 should be advised that John (if given 8 runs) can be really quick. So you best hope he doesn't get a ton of reruns Saturday.

lddavis91 wrote:

Loren wrote:Y'all should be really happy that I made this hairpin about 3x the size of what Les had originally drawn, and vetoed his 25-foot spaced 3-cone slalom before the finish.

That point is certainly debatable, changing the hairpin from a single cone to a cluster of cones 4' wide will not change the line I take much at all, that is a token difference at best. Just FYI for anyone purposefully taking this corner wide rather than as tight, you are doing it wrong, of this much I am absolutely certain, it is your prerogative and Loren opened up the back wall allowing for this, but don't do it. You want to enter wide yes, but as your apexing the turn you should be as close as possible without hitting the cone/cones, after the apex, use the throttle to drift out as wide as the exit gate will allow, and yes, this applies to Miatae as well. I have pressed from the very beginning for a wider entry/exit gate, my original map has it at least twice as wide, this does actually impact the fast line in and out significantly.

The tight slalom at the end, was as discussed in email, way too tight, you were absolutely right about that, that was a rookie course map design mistake, I wasn't thinking about scale effectively at all when I put that down and would never have actually put something like that down with cones, I'm used to just pacing those off physically.

IMHO a good multi cone straight slalom should be about 28 paces for us short guys, so about 60-65 feet between cones. Maybe 45 feet if your intent is to reduce speed, of course you could decrease the distance progressively thru the slalom to see who is paying attention. 25 feet is for go carts.

Joe

I finally found a name for this course. "Cry Your Eye Out".

We all drive the same course still right? There is a valid reason most people don't do well on a 180-360 (airport turn) and Les is trying to help us all out. Hey 30% chance for rain makes this a real wet possibility for some of us? Should be no need of washable chalk lines fortunately.

Maybe next time release purty color to scale map the same day St Pete College releases the signup sheets ?

I'm betting all the course workers will love this course and everyone will like getting alot of runs again.