Saturday Nov. 3rd - "Membership" meeting wrap-up

[treekiller]

Address:
2882 Deer Run N
Clearwater, FL
33761




first page, dude. 8)

sorry I'm a late bloomer to this one... I have been working triple time making sure the Rally club gets dug in like a tick. homefully this time next year I'll have the time to start doing autocrosses again. heck I still have my suspension in peices in a box waiting a rebuild. although after hearing about the new chevy I might be done with the Nissan.

[Dave-ROR]

damn I really need to go to orlando to get my tools.. get halfway into removing something then realize I'm missing a socket.

Anyways, I'll see you all soon.

[WAFlowers]

damn I really need to go to orlando to get my tools.. get halfway into removing something then realize I'm missing a socket.

If it is a socket I have you are welcome to borrow it. I've got a fairly complete collection.

[Native]

meanwhile, later that evening, after the meeting:

Well, never mind the meeting, ya'll missed one heckuva spread the Flowers put out!! whooooowheeee! (Thanks again, Bill and Wilma)

I'm gonna attempt to summarize, those of you who were there feel free to edit/correct/add, especially if anything major came up after I left:

Event attendance has been good, we're way ahead of budget. Wondering out loud why so many people attend one or two events and then we never see them again...

Looking at replacing aging loaner helmets, necessary maintenance on the trailer, and will start investigating the possibility of replacing the trailer with something similar but that's lighter to tow.

Briefly critiqued the website. Generally positive feedback.

Starting in 2008, Event Chairpersons will get a free event. Please plan to sign up to chair as much in advance as possible. The '08 schedule is pending, as all dates are not yet confirmed. January 12 and 13 will be a novice school followed by a full autocross. In March, we're looking at a 2-day Mirrokhana event. Stay tuned for threads on each.

Discussed season awards, but to no conclusion - will need to revive the old thread and make some decisions soon. Will there be an "awards banquet" like last year? Last year's was not well attended. It was on a weekday night. Ok, we can try again on a weekend instead.

In 2008, as of now, 10 events will be for points towards the season championship. Points toward the championship will be based on the 9 highest scores (the lowest will be dropped/not counted).

As of now, through most of the summer in 2008 the Flowers will not be here. Who wants to tow the trailer?



I believe that pretty much covers it.

[WAFlowers]

meanwhile, later that evening, after the meeting:

Well, never mind the meeting, ya'll missed one heckuva spread the Flowers put out!! whooooowheeee! (Thanks again, Bill and Wilma)

Thanks Steve. It was fun. Good practice for running our B&B.

As of now, through most of the summer in 2008 the Flowers will not be here. Who wants to tow the trailer?

Yeah, if all goes well for us it looks like our tow vehicle will be unavailable from May through September.

[Charles]

In 2008, as of now, 10 events will be for points towards the season championship. Points toward the championship will be based on the 9 highest scores (the lowest will be dropped/not counted).

I would have voted for 8 out of 10, but either way glad to see we are dropping something. Not everyone can make EVERY event.

[Charles]

necessary maintenance on the trailer, and will start investigating the possibility of replacing the trailer with something similar but that's lighter to tow.

No reason anyone can't tow a 5x8 or 6x10 V-nose enclosed







Ok, anyone except miata or S2000 owners......... but I'm sure 90% of our regular members have a vehicle sitting at home that could tow this. All but the smallest of cars will take a class 1 hitch which caps us @ 2,000lbs. 5x8 enclosed sit around 800 lbs empty.......guessing we have ~ 500lbs of equipment at the most? water, soda, and chalk dust mostly.....

[Native]

The general concensus on the trailer was to try to find a used office or food service trailer with a door and a large window. The idea of using just a cargo trailer was soundly trounced. The belief was that finding a lighter but otherwise similar trailer would not be too difficult.

I think Brian K. was going to look into it (I think). If anyone (cough, Charles...or anyone else) would like to do a little trailer research and see what we could realistically do, that would be great - especially if it's something we can afford and do before, say, May of next year

[Charles]

The general concensus on the trailer was to try to find a used office or food service trailer with a door and a large window. The idea of using just a cargo trailer was soundly trounced. The belief was that finding a lighter but otherwise similar trailer would not be too difficult.

I think Brian K. was going to look into it (I think). If anyone (cough, Charles...or anyone else) would like to do a little trailer research and see what we could realistically do, that would be great - especially if it's something we can afford and do before, say, May of next year

I don't understand why everyone is so intent on working out of the trailer.
It's impossible for timing to see the next car gridded and the whole course at the same time. Setting up shop outside under a large canopy, timing can see gridded cars as well as the entire course.

Any trailer tall enough to "work in' needs a mid-size SUV or truck to pull. Short , narrow tall trailers don't really exist and the height creates a ton of drag anyway.

Cliffnotes........ I hope someone else has a truck/SUV to pull whatever we end up with.......

Ok, I feel better now..... it's already been discussed and voted on.....

[Dave-ROR]

In 2008, as of now, 10 events will be for points towards the season championship. Points toward the championship will be based on the 9 highest scores (the lowest will be dropped/not counted).

I would have voted for 8 out of 10, but either way glad to see we are dropping something. Not everyone can make EVERY event.

8 our of 10 is a bit much, it really penalizes the guy who shows up for every event that way, even 9/10 does...

[Charles]

8 our of 10 is a bit much, it really penalizes the guy who shows up for every event that way, even 9/10 does...

How so?
In my example, and the 9 out of 10 scenario, everyone's top 8/9 results out of 10 count....

You can say it doesn't "reward" someone for being able to make every event, but penalize them?

Besides, it DOES give your 10 for 10 guys an extra shot to finish higher than that one 4th place finish and have it not count.

[deadmeat]

Wow, guess a lot was discussed at the meeting!

It's a shame I didn't make it, and I was up there in Clearwater for a portion of the day dyno'ing... but then again I got "misplaced" just trying to get to the dyno off a major street, let alone a residential address!!!

As far as the trailer... I've never hung out in there, but I can understand why people would want to work from there. Less exposure to the elements, and if rain strikes, some place dry for delicate electronic equipment to "hide."

I'm not sure how the temperatures are in there while working, but I can't imagine it's pleasant to be enclosed in a hot box!

And I'm not sure about how the budget thing works, but was there any talk of buying a "club" truck to get equipment towed/transported? I know theres things like insurance, taxes, ect... Any thoughts on that?

OR if you can get the trailer weight down, my automatic Miata does a bang-up job of towing my lawn equipment, why not cones and chalk dust?

Interested in learning more about the issues and workings of the group.

I'm also thinking, is there anyone locally that would be willing to donate helmets to the organisation? A tire shop or alignment place that would be willing to make a small contribution for having a helmet with their logo or company name/contact information on it?

I'd be happy to take some time this week and poll a few places to see if they'd be willing to come on as sponsors with just the cost of a helmet or something *simple* like that? Maybe get them to purchase a lunch or two for us?

Not sure if anyones looked into these kinds of things, but let me know what your thoughts are...

-meaty

[Alizarin]

if rain strikes, some place dry for delicate electronic equipment to "hide."

That's mainly the reason, Charles. Its not exactly easy to read the laptop screen in the sunlight, and with us using more electronics (a printer soon?) it is very nice to have a place where I (or whoever is running timing that day) don't have to worry about scrambling to get equipment covered or shut down if it starts raining. We do live in Florida after all

And we've also proven that having a canopy can still get blown over (see January's event earlier this year).

Rather than a giant trailer, a suggestion of an old pop-up camper was made. I know that there are old models that did not have any wings on them, and we can cut a hole in the front and install an A/C unit if we want to go that far. That, and even MY car can tow one of those. One of those can be set up in a few minutes just by setting up the outriggers and start cranking.

[Native]

How so?
In my example, and the 9 out of 10 scenario, everyone's top 8/9 results out of 10 count....

You can say it doesn't "reward" someone for being able to make every event, but penalize them?

It does penalize - the first place 10 of 10 events guy loses his lowest finish, which means he loses points - the second place 9 of 10 events guy just drops his one absence, and loses nothing. I believe the idea was to tighten up the competition a little, especially at the end of the season. As it stands right now, if we were doing the drop thing this year, the lead in Class A would drop to only 1 point instead of the 4 or so where it is now...no other classes would change. Unless of course, people start attending more regularly - then it might get interesting...

was there any talk of buying a "club" truck to get equipment towed/transported?

yes, briefly. It certainly could solve the problem, but create others. Ultimately, the idea was ruled out.

Interested in learning more about the issues and workings of the group.

Keep attending, volunteering; show up early, stay late; come to the meetings, etc. Feel free to ask questions. The more interested, motivated and involved people we have, the better the club will work and survive!

I'd be happy to take some time this week and poll a few places to see if they'd be willing to come on as sponsors with just the cost of a helmet or something *simple* like that? Maybe get them to purchase a lunch or two for us?

Go for it. Our accountant is working in exchange for advertising their office, which one day we will actually do. I've spoken to a couple of reps from local tuner shops that have come to events, but nothing has turned out. Dan talked to a guy he knows from Papa John's, but nothing materialized there, either. If you can score a sponsor or two (and their logo on a loaner helmet they bought is a great idea), that would be great!

[Loren]

Personally, I wouldn't fret too much about sponsorship. We're charging $30 entry fees, which is pretty standard these days, and no one is complaining. With that, we've got more than enough income to get buy AND buy the things that we need.

Helmets have been in the budget all year (and the two years prior to that), somebody locate a good price and BUY them already!

Do the research on the trailer before mid-December and if we have the cash, we can budget that as an expense for next year.

Our trailer is uber-heavy because it was never built with the intention of being light. It was a construction site office trailer. Haul it to a construction site (with a BIG truck) and leave it there for 3-6 months. I'm certain that we could find or have built a lightweight aluminum-framed trailer that would be much more suited to our needs. Perhaps somewhat smaller, but with better use of space. And probably half of the weight!

[Dave-ROR]

8 our of 10 is a bit much, it really penalizes the guy who shows up for every event that way, even 9/10 does...

How so?
In my example, and the 9 out of 10 scenario, everyone's top 8/9 results out of 10 count....

You can say it doesn't "reward" someone for being able to make every event, but penalize them?

Besides, it DOES give your 10 for 10 guys an extra shot to finish higher than that one 4th place finish and have it not count.

I know Steve already pointed this out.. but..

Let's say Driver A gets 1st or 2nd at every event, and looks like this:
E1: 6, E2: 4, E3: 6, E4: 9, E5: 9, E6: 9, E7: 6, E8: 6, E9: 6, E10: 6
Total points: 67

Driver B is his main competition, but misses one event and looks like this:
E1: 4, E2: 6, E3: 9, E4: 6, E5: 6, E6: 6, E7: 9, E8: 9, E9: 9, E10: 0
Total Points: 64

Take 4 off 1st place, the guy who attended every event and he gets 63pts, and moves to second place.

Perhaps driver 2 would have won anyways if he showed up for the 10th event, but either way, you are removing points from the driver who does show up everytime and taking nothing from the driver who misses an event.

Now perhaps if you want to take the lowest score that is >0 it would be fine, but the drivers for a change like this want the missed event to go away, not one that they had points for

I don't actually care one way or the other on this, and since I am guaranteed to miss at least an event or two it obviously won't hurt me any, but it can hurt the guy who shows up every time depending on the points.

[Loren]

Dropping a VERY minimal number of events is typical for an amateur series. I don't care if we drop on or two... or even three... but whatever it is, it needs to be stated at the very beginning of the season. That way, everyone knows the score before they start. Nobody's going to give up their vacation plans to avoid missing an event in pursuit of a championship, etc.

Dropping an event or two helps to keep the sport "casual". Keeps the "F" in FAST.

[Anonymous]

Plus his math is wrong. Guy number 1 has 70 points, after dropping his lowest score he still wins.

[Dave-ROR]

Plus his math is wrong. Guy number 1 has 70 points, after dropping his lowest score he still wins.

That's what I get for moving two of the numbers and entering the wrong one, fixed

Either way it doesn't matter to me, I'm fine with dropping one, maybe even two, but it doesn't change much based on this years numbers, except for drew (not that it matters for this year anyways of course). Actually I supported doing this last time it came up and this time as well.

[Anonymous]

but it doesn't change much based on this years numbers

Howard may disagree with that. Assuming Ryan isn't coming to anymore events. Howard would move into 1st with 2 drops. Makes it more interesting. Right now as long as Drew shows up at the last few events he has the attendance award, I mean season championship wrapped up.

Code: Select all

              0 drops	1 drop	2 drops	3 drops
Drew         39          36         32       28
Ryan         35          35         35       34
Howard       33          33         33       32